As a big fan of yours and Heiser’s, I can’t wait for the Christian world to learn more about the D32 worldview from a TV show on Amazon Prime! #StayBlurry
Am I understanding this correctly—there was a secondary fall of angelic beings, the first cosmic fall of course being Lucifer (along with other angels at the same time)?
Yes. In my forthcoming book I suggest there were actually 3 pivotal falls (rebellions) as I build on the observation of my doctoral advisor Dr. Heiser.
As soon as I saw "cosmic geography" I thought, "This guy has to be familiar with Heiser." And you are!
Firstly, great post! I've not seen the series yet, but I was asking someone about it last night. Definitely going to give it a watch this weekend.
Second, SO jealous of you doctoral committee! Dr. Heiser passed when I began my PhD program. I work with Dr. Patrick Schreiner, though. Super cool guy!
I'm in my last year of coursework before dissertation phase, and Heiser is responsible for giving me the interest and drive to pursue it.
That's wild! Dr. Schreiner was my first reader. Kind of a crazy detail but I was Patrick's first PhD student that he supervised and I ended up being Mike's last. Hoping to keep his legacy going through this unseen realm and D32 Worldview theological work!
No way! It is amazing that God worked out the details for you to be blessed by the leadership and supervision of two great scholars. "The Unseen Realm" and the D32 worldview changed my views on so many things. I look forward to keeping up with your work as you post.
If you are ever in the Kansas City area, let me know, and I will treat you to some great coffee/tea at Midwestern Seminary as I manage the Sword & Trowel bookstore and Tomlinson Cafe on campus. I don't know if you are a coffee guy or not, but we serve actual coffee (single-origin beans) rather than what you get from Folgers or Starbucks 🤓
Thank you so much for this! I just finished reading through the first 5 books of the Bible and had so many questions about the passages about “other gods”. After reading this & watching your YouTube video I started reading The Unseen Realm and my mind is completely blown! Everything is starting to make sense!
Interesting, not entirely sold on it though. I thought the Sons of God in Genesis referred particularly to the descendants of Seth (particularly those seeking to follow God). Additionally interesting connection with those verses in Deuteronomy! There does seem to be some similar language between them. However, still not sold on the idea of them being fallen angels. Here is my question concerning it however: if Deuteronomy 32:8 is referring to the stewardship of the nations via the sons of God, then would these really be fallen angels considering the implications of the verses found in John 8 (read verses 37-44), which seem to suggest that a son does the works of his father? (also consider Job 1:6 where a distinction is made between the sons of God and Satan ) Considering this; if the nations were provided stewards, perhaps these stewards didn't fall into rebellion, but simply the people already rebelling against God at Babel maintained a rebellious spirit and persisted in idolatry. Perhaps nations do have the sons of God (angels) looking after them despite their wayfaring ways? Let me know what you think of this angle concerning these verses, thanks for taking the time to do so.
Great thoughts! Check out this video I did that is pulling from my dissertation where I cover the sethite view on Gen 6. That I think is the first part of this.
As a big fan of yours and Heiser’s, I can’t wait for the Christian world to learn more about the D32 worldview from a TV show on Amazon Prime! #StayBlurry
Great resource!
Am I understanding this correctly—there was a secondary fall of angelic beings, the first cosmic fall of course being Lucifer (along with other angels at the same time)?
Yes. In my forthcoming book I suggest there were actually 3 pivotal falls (rebellions) as I build on the observation of my doctoral advisor Dr. Heiser.
Meant to also express thanks for putting together this series addressing House of David!
Were the Nephilim not all destroyed in the flood?
I’ll actually address this in the article that comes out in a few days! Stay tuned.
As soon as I saw "cosmic geography" I thought, "This guy has to be familiar with Heiser." And you are!
Firstly, great post! I've not seen the series yet, but I was asking someone about it last night. Definitely going to give it a watch this weekend.
Second, SO jealous of you doctoral committee! Dr. Heiser passed when I began my PhD program. I work with Dr. Patrick Schreiner, though. Super cool guy!
I'm in my last year of coursework before dissertation phase, and Heiser is responsible for giving me the interest and drive to pursue it.
Thanks again!
That's wild! Dr. Schreiner was my first reader. Kind of a crazy detail but I was Patrick's first PhD student that he supervised and I ended up being Mike's last. Hoping to keep his legacy going through this unseen realm and D32 Worldview theological work!
No way! It is amazing that God worked out the details for you to be blessed by the leadership and supervision of two great scholars. "The Unseen Realm" and the D32 worldview changed my views on so many things. I look forward to keeping up with your work as you post.
If you are ever in the Kansas City area, let me know, and I will treat you to some great coffee/tea at Midwestern Seminary as I manage the Sword & Trowel bookstore and Tomlinson Cafe on campus. I don't know if you are a coffee guy or not, but we serve actual coffee (single-origin beans) rather than what you get from Folgers or Starbucks 🤓
Intresting.
Thank you so much for this! I just finished reading through the first 5 books of the Bible and had so many questions about the passages about “other gods”. After reading this & watching your YouTube video I started reading The Unseen Realm and my mind is completely blown! Everything is starting to make sense!
Interesting, not entirely sold on it though. I thought the Sons of God in Genesis referred particularly to the descendants of Seth (particularly those seeking to follow God). Additionally interesting connection with those verses in Deuteronomy! There does seem to be some similar language between them. However, still not sold on the idea of them being fallen angels. Here is my question concerning it however: if Deuteronomy 32:8 is referring to the stewardship of the nations via the sons of God, then would these really be fallen angels considering the implications of the verses found in John 8 (read verses 37-44), which seem to suggest that a son does the works of his father? (also consider Job 1:6 where a distinction is made between the sons of God and Satan ) Considering this; if the nations were provided stewards, perhaps these stewards didn't fall into rebellion, but simply the people already rebelling against God at Babel maintained a rebellious spirit and persisted in idolatry. Perhaps nations do have the sons of God (angels) looking after them despite their wayfaring ways? Let me know what you think of this angle concerning these verses, thanks for taking the time to do so.
Great thoughts! Check out this video I did that is pulling from my dissertation where I cover the sethite view on Gen 6. That I think is the first part of this.
https://youtu.be/WFJ57rt_unA?si=uGArNnbHqNrtD7nK